Craig Weinberg @S33light
Questioning assumptions about light, electromagnetism, gravity, time, life, and consciousness. https://t.co/hvEVWHKKp3 multisenserealism.com 3Δॐc³ Joined November 2010-
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@StuartHameroff I agree we can say that consciousness is 'collapse' but I think the reason that's true is because 'particles' like photons are sensations in the first place. Sensation is the fabric of physical appearance. It has nothing to do with humans.
@Philip_Goff Wouldn't that make masochism impossible?
@richardgordon22 There is no experiment that doesn't end with a conscious person observing and interpreting events as a result. The entire concept of a quantum wave function or its 'collapse' is a pure abstraction inferred in consciousness.
@leebriskcyrano @getjonwithit Agree, and further, 'map' is an intellectual projection that we make onto anything that we use to refer to something else. Nothing is only a map or a sign, it's just that things we perceive can appear isomorphic in some way to another perception or idea.
@getjonwithit Physics alone can't encode. It has no access to codes or abstraction. Tangibility can be 'simulated' by hinting at it through other sense modalties (sight and sound) but only b/c our conscious experience typically includes access to all of those aesthetics and their associations.
@getjonwithit The map is only one way because mapping is not a physical effect. Whether it's microelectronics or abacus beads, there is no access to any abstraction without assuming rich, multimodal conscious experience.
@HedonicUrge @DavidDeutschOxf @charleswangb @CR The degree to which x appears to simulate y depends entirely on what modalities and scales of sensitivity are available within a given conscious experience. A glass of hydrogen peroxide is a simulation of water if you can only see it. A scarecrow simulates a farmer to a bird.
@BernardJBaars If an unconscious brain is 'using conscious access'... unconsciously, then it is an infinite regress. The issue is, how do unexperienced material conditions begin to have an experience?
@StuartHameroff It's not that bodies *have* disembodied qualia, it's that the available qualia are defined by awareness. If you can see and touch on a micro scale, then a bacterial body may appear. If you can't feel or think on an equivalent scale, there's no shared subjective qualia available.
@StuartHameroff Bacteria are already qualia. The issue is whether the visible and tangible qualia we access through a microscope are more descriptive of the whole phenomenon than the same qualia that define human bodies when accessed through a telescope. I don't see why they would be.
@ThomasMitc85131 @samharrisnot @StuartHameroff If we consider a cosmopsychic foundation, quantum contexts and scales need not be assumed to be more foundational than any other unbounded context of experience. The cosmos may be holographic-relativistic rather than hierarchical-by-scale-of-tangible-appearance.
@ThomasMitc85131 @samharrisnot @StuartHameroff I respect Orch OR and consider it plausible as an 'Easy Problem' solution but as far as the hard problem goes, why would relocating it to spacetime on Planck scale make it introspective? Also why would introspection make quantum events multi-aesthetic?
@BernardJBaars If the brain does its own thinking instead of neurochemistry does that mean that conscious people do the opposite?
@AhQFish @BernardJBaars I am satisfied that nothing that I can say is going to help you understand more, so I will leave this conversation.
@AhQFish @BernardJBaars If you're not talking about forces, fields, particles, atoms on the Periodic table, density, specific gravity, shape, location, velocity, etc you're talking about consciousness and metaphysics. It's circular to make up non-physical ways to make physics seem non-physical.
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