@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan The latter mostly, yeah. But people don't trust US about wars, for example, but say that they can't do anything about it anyway. But again, that's EU, where many people still understand that "things are not good, but elsewhere are even worse." So that's why they go along with it.
@Dreznicagoat @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan If they only have glimpses of suspicion, they're still deeply indoctrinated. It's a long, long way out of the hole from there.
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan I don't think it's deep indoctrination. There's usually just no point in questioning it. Even if you "know the truth", you feel helpless and that can even be worse, so people will say "better not to think too much about it".
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan It takes a specific understanding of things to actually question things and believe that a better world is possible at the same time. Just "knowing" by itself can feel heavy. So people rather ignore it.
@Dreznicagoat @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan You're just describing indoctrination. Not knowing a better world is possible is the product of indoctrination. Believing nothing can be done is the product of indoctrination. You're just describing different layers of indoctrination.
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan How is that indoctrination and not a rational fear? You see how even famous, wealthy people, such as Roger Waters, are being attacked and smeared for dissent. Why risk being disciplined for things one doesn't perceive as directly affecting them, such as the rights of Palestinians
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan I don't see this type of disciplinary systems as something new and advanced. I think that is something that basically any ruling party in history has employed.
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan We can remember how many protests happened (also enabled by specific interests), during Covid-19. No amount of "propaganda", censorship, fact checking, smearing was effective. People felt lockdowns affecting them, while imperialism is something westerners can more easily ignore.
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan Even silly things, such as NAFO. People get a Wikipedia page and positive press about their actions, and they are already more likely to associate with the group, be part of a just fight. I don't see all this things as very advanced. It's all qute straightforward and crude.
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan I'm not saying that it's easy to fight propaganda. It's not. But not because it's so advanced and sophisticated, but because the empire has a lot of resources and a monopoly on violence. The difficulty comes from motivating people who don't see themselves as affected to fight it.
@Dreznicagoat @caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan The difficulty isn't in motivating people to fight it who don't see themselves as affected to fight it, it comes from the fact this propaganda only exists because it's repeating to people what they've already decided to believe.
@uncle_authority @Dreznicagoat @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan I myself know for a fact that I used to believe western propaganda not because I wanted to but because I was tricked. And I didn't stop believing it because my material conditions got worse, I stopped believing it because I finally got the time to research and learn the truth.