Erica @Ericaaa1995

humanist of a sort; trying to be friendlier San Diego, CA Joined November 2020

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shrigma leninist @charybdeez

2 days ago

if a schoolmaster can be a productive worker per marx, i don't see why a professor can't

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The idea that an Uber driver is "petty bourgeois" because they own their car is based on the entirely anti-Marxist position that the means of production are inherently capital, rather than capital being a set of social relations. But anti-Marxism is the "Marxism" of the day.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist You have a weak grasp of Marx, the larger tradition, and the history of Marxology and the study of Marx over the years. But you dogmatically insist upon your interpretation - which you don't regard as interpretation because you're silly and unserious - with insults. It's weak.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist Moreover, as I noted, we have Engels identifying a "commercial proletariat." Lumpen doesn't even analogize to this. Industrial proletariat does. And you doubtlessly accept them. So you decided that Engels is just wrong here lol.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist Also, you have almost 60k twitter posts lol. Do you even have a job? Do you know how many posts per month, week, and day that is? Read more Marx, Marxists, Marxologists, and maybe touch grass and join the proletarian class lol.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist Calling it as I see it. You have a weak argument, and rather than defend it, you insist that the only person doing interpretation is me and everyone else, and that only you have the true correct reading. It's funny. And you shore up that weakness with rude comments and insults.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist Not offended. I'm amused, but also bored. You're not a serious person and you haven't engaged with Marx or the tradition long enough to realize how critical interpretation is. You're a novice. That's cool. Keep reading. I support you!

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist Keep reading Marx and Marxists and study the field of Marxology. You'll grow out of it. I got faith in you, kid.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist And again, in context, he's discussing the prole within the direct production process of surplus value, not the prole tout court. I think it's clear too, but as someone who had been studying Marx for over a decade, I try to not overstate my interpretation like a sectarian novice.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist You're free to interpret it in that way. I think it telling that you insist on a definition that divides the class.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist It's a conversation. You read that quote one way. I read it another way. That's how conversations work. You're being rude, and I think it's because you recognize the rhetorical and logical weaknesses of your argument. And "novice" is funny. You're showing that you've lost.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist I think we can, actually. It's a subset of the larger class of proletariat.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist I offered my interpretation of the quote. I'm not ignoring it, refusing to accept it, or denying its significance. I'm placing it in context, not just in Vol 1, but in his larger body of work. I think you're overstating your position and I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist Engels has a footnote in Vol 3 of Capital, for example, wherein he uses the language "commercial proletariat" denoting "hundreds of German clerks" whom we identify as unproductive as they play no role in the direct process of capitalist production of value.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist I don't read that footnote as a definition of proletariat generally, rather I think it's Marx discussing the proletariat within the direct process of capitalist production, which would necessarily be productive in that instance, but not precluding the category unproductive prole.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@israeliens1 @ygzgzot @SwampCommunist Those passages define productive labor, which isn't at issue. What's at issue is whether it's a defining element of the proletarian class. Where does Marx define the proletarian as only those workers who directly produce surplus-value/produce & increase capital?

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@AndromedaPip If an uber driver or door dasher is petit bourgeois, then the proletariat no longer exist as a cognizable category and are apparently negated through the advent of smart phones, as you don’t actually need a car to deliver for these apps.

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Erica @Ericaaa1995

2 days ago

@AndromedaPip The influx of capitalists categorizing their labor as “independent contractors” to get around regulations and taxes doesn’t meaningfully and fundamentally alter the actual productive relation between employer and employee. It’s a legal fiction, not a social-productive reality.