@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan How is that indoctrination and not a rational fear? You see how even famous, wealthy people, such as Roger Waters, are being attacked and smeared for dissent. Why risk being disciplined for things one doesn't perceive as directly affecting them, such as the rights of Palestinians
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan I don't see this type of disciplinary systems as something new and advanced. I think that is something that basically any ruling party in history has employed.
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan We can remember how many protests happened (also enabled by specific interests), during Covid-19. No amount of "propaganda", censorship, fact checking, smearing was effective. People felt lockdowns affecting them, while imperialism is something westerners can more easily ignore.
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan Even silly things, such as NAFO. People get a Wikipedia page and positive press about their actions, and they are already more likely to associate with the group, be part of a just fight. I don't see all this things as very advanced. It's all qute straightforward and crude.
@caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan I'm not saying that it's easy to fight propaganda. It's not. But not because it's so advanced and sophisticated, but because the empire has a lot of resources and a monopoly on violence. The difficulty comes from motivating people who don't see themselves as affected to fight it.
@Dreznicagoat @caitoz @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan The difficulty isn't in motivating people to fight it who don't see themselves as affected to fight it, it comes from the fact this propaganda only exists because it's repeating to people what they've already decided to believe.
@uncle_authority @Dreznicagoat @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay @__ulaan I myself know for a fact that I used to believe western propaganda not because I wanted to but because I was tricked. And I didn't stop believing it because my material conditions got worse, I stopped believing it because I finally got the time to research and learn the truth.
@caitoz @uncle_authority @Dreznicagoat @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay This thing you keep insisting on is itself propaganda, and you clearly choose to believe it because the idea that we were all tricked, and that we have no agency whatsoever in the propaganda question, makes you (and your audience) feel better.
@__ulaan @uncle_authority @Dreznicagoat @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay I literally just told you a true fact about my own personal experience. Bleating "that's propaganda" is not an argument, it's just your only answer to the fact that it is devastating to your position.
@caitoz @uncle_authority @Dreznicagoat @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay Yeah, I'm devastated.
@__ulaan @uncle_authority @Dreznicagoat @smellbeard @bidetmarxman @RodericDay I mean you literally just claimed that it's "propaganda" for me to talk about my own experience with belief in mainstream western narratives. If you still feel this debate is going well for you that says a lot more about you as a person than the way this debate is going.